Don’t want to clutter up the minstrel class tactics thread because this is really basic stuff, but I could do with a hint or two:

So…..I’ve finally dragged my minstrel up to lvl 50 & want to try some freeping amongst people that want to improve the quality of the game by playing fair.
The atmosphere Freepside does seem a lot more intense than Creepside, where it seemed easier to have a laugh while you were being slaughtered ( I have a R2 Reaver with suicidal tendancies ).
I’ve been reading up on all the tips, hints, and other forum posts on this Site but some of the comments on poor performance are a bit harsh and the high expectations sound pretty daunting for someone with little freep PvP experience. Will I be regularly booted from raids till I get it right? Screamed at for being stupid enough to die at the wrong time? Put on ignore lists for not healing/not following the RAT or Raid Leader? – So I find myself considering a swift pony ride to the Ettens….and then going off trait grinding instead.

So…….
What’s the most basic, most important survival advice for getting a n00b minstrel through the first 2 or 3 skirmishes/raids (not the excellent detailed tactics that are in the class thread, just basic, big differences between PvE and PvP?).
Plus a comment or two about raid etiquette would be nice. For example, am I supposed to shout if I’ve got aggro, or will that just distract the raid leader who’s got enough to do already?
I’ve done plenty of fellowships, but not much raiding.

The atmosphere is more intense because for a long time freep side was a disaster. This has left some bad feelings and a certain urgency to try and get things fixed NOW. As group we are still uncertain about what works and what doesn't and this means people will disagree.

Don't forget that creeps don't loose anything by dying, freeps do, no matter what creeps may tell you, ettens carries a repair bill and if you get killed a couple of times it adds up, for very little reward. You can see this as creeps will sometikes go suicide for no reason even as a fast travel option, freeps won't do that because it costs them money.

If you want basic survival advice, then here are some very basic tips that go for any class.

1. Follow the raid. The other raid members are green dots, you should be in the center of those dots. Always, no exceptions.
2. If in doubt see rule 1.
3. If doing a long induction skill, see rule 1.
4. If you are chatting, see rule 1.
5. If you go AFK, see rule 1.

This is all down to the most basic difference between PvE and PvP. In PvE the enemy does not attack until you trigger it. In PvP the enemy attacks when they want to.

So in PvP YOU GOT TO KEEP MOVING AND BE PREPARED FOR BATTLE EVERY SINGLE SECOND.

Ideally for a support class others should be keeping an eye on you but yes, if you are in trouble (but it ain't agro, creeps have free will... well as much as file scum of the earth can have free will, and no guardian can pull them off you) then yes, shout out, but don't expect miracles.

To avoid being singled out to easily, you need to be with the pack. The most basic defence is to be hard to target. A hobbit can hide inside a dwarve.

Concentrate first on your position and second on healing, if you position is right then you can do max healing, but if your position is wrong, you attempt at healing will soon be interrupted courtesy of a warg chewing on your guts.

As a LM, I suggest you stick close to them. LM'ers share you induction problem, have similar range and as such won't move around as much as the RAT or raid leader and they also have a few skills that can stun everything around them. Hunters are bad to be around as they tend to remain stuck in one place to long. Other minstrels are good to be close to, they know where they are supposed to be, so if you are in the same spot, you are were you are supposed to be.

The alliance is working on better strategies to keep minstrels alive, but for now, stay in the center of the pack. Always. You only rez someone outside the pack if you are anti-stunned by a lore-master and a champ is in front of you and a burglar to the side. Else, fuck the rez. No rez without protection. The most common mistake is for a induction based class to start a skill when the raid is pulling back, finish their skill and wondering where the hell everyone is and what are all these dogs doing here without leashes.

A good raid will be aware of the needs to protect the healers. Now of course is the hardest trick of all, finding a good raid.

1. Follow the raid. The other raid members are green dots, you should be in the center of those dots. Always, no exceptions.
2. If in doubt see rule 1.
3. If doing a long induction skill, see rule 1.
4. If you are chatting, see rule 1.
5. If you go AFK, see rule 1.

Now THAT, I can understand!

Thanks for the tips........

I must admit, till the night I followed a raid around and died a couple of times, I also thought that repair bills on the Ettenmoors were not supposed to be an issue And yes, the only problem with dying as a creep is that annoying jog back to the battle.

the only repair bills in the mòors you get is from npc damage and just the usual rotting of your equipment (I once had a 2c repair bill for my boots for walking about 2hr straight without fighting)

Yesterday, playing as my Reaver (Shapshag) in the defence of TR, one of the raid members complained somewhat rudely as to the (allegedly) lack of healing he was receiving from the Warleaders. This did not go down well with the raid and he was in the verge of being kicked.

So, the moral of this little tale is this - if following the carnage and confusion of a raid, people are threatening to kick you due to poor performance then put them on your "no more heals" list and find another raid, as they will certainly be in the minority.

Good luck and hope to see you on the moors

Bango.

I had an excellent time this afternoon following Connall's raid around on Sunday Slaughter

Now I'm beginning to understand the plusses and negatives of different tactics, i was wondering if anyone had any extra comments or advice about something that I don't think there's really an obvious answer for:

I "follow the skull".I only have eyes for the skull (and player stats ) I follow it everywhere and stand near it when i can - it keeps me at the centre of the raid and makes me hard to target. In theory, that should also make it easy to heal - but in a big freep raid like today vs an equally big creep raid, all fighting in a small area, my lag, although not serious, was bad enough to slow down what I was seeing, how I was moving, and worst of all, induction times on my heals . I could see people needing a heal (including Raid Leader Connall )) and couldn't get the skills to kick in quick enough, and people were dying.
So I tried moving more to the edge of the raid. This cured the lag effect, my skills didn't delay, I could heal quickly again - but I died more often because I was easier to spot and target and so was not much use to anyone while I was kneeling on the ground or galloping back.

Which is worst for a raid - to lose players that can't get a heal, or to lose a minstrel now & again that's been careless enough to get targetted?

Generally the raid can afford to lose other players more than minstrels, and especially in raids with only 2 or 3 minstrels, a dead minstrel will quickly lead to more dead players.

The lagfests like yesterday are problematic as you find yourself unable to do things as normal and with the pc going into "shakeycam" 1 FPS mode you sort of click things and hope that your actually doing something and waiting to find out if your dead or alive, have won or lost 10 seconds later after the lag has expired...

Fortunately these are rare so you wont experience them too much. If you can keep yourself near the middle but a bit to the back of a raid you tend not to get quite as much lag, so this is probably best at the start of a fight but after a fight starts to go on for more than 30 seconds the rear of a raid becomes alikely target for warg ganks so its better to move up a bit probably.

Where you can keep out of LOS of creeps ie behind rocks, trees, walls etc for ressing is good as you can regognise a ressing/healing mincer/warleader by the shiny green ring round their feet as soon as they try to use these skills - that gives me time to fire bards arrow at them and also gives wargs/reavers time to interrupt you...

I find that if im being targetted by 1 or 2 creeps quickly moving through the raid and round a few trees rocks corners etc can throw them off me, if you get ratted you have to be very fast and usually get some heals to survive - of course if you move away from healers and Guards/Capos trying to protect you they cant help you so its a fine line...

An important part of survival when travelling alone and in small groups is your travel route - direct routes and places where freeps often hang about = good ganking spots for wargs and small creep groups ie straight up the hill from OC/Lug graveyard to Lug... dont do it! Wargs will often wait near EC crossroads as well i tend to avoid this place alone. Direct route from GY to TR is also potentially suicidal - move towards Ost and go through all the bears to TR instead.

Your doing fine Shiona and will learn, I just hope we will provide you with a more fun experience as well!