The formation of a raid

Guest

Yep, I agree Connall.

So all members of this Alliance should be a good example in raids. The first to charge, the last to flee, always stay on RAT, always following orders. And leaders have to make sure that the raid stays on RAT even with NPCs before the real fight starts. If we do not manage to stay on RAT against NPCs, we also wont manage against creeps. And like this, new players in a raid (espacially in a new formed raid) have a chance to get used to RAT.

Guest

Ooooo... look at what i found on raiding

Guest

Calwen wrote:

I read some things that scares me here...
Person n°1 think like that.
Person n°2 think like this.
Person n°3 think another way.

For example, I see people saying they look for stared creeps when they fight.
That may make them run away, true.
But still you should be on the RAT. è_é

If person n°1 & 2 also do what they think is best... Well, no wonder the freeps are so bad at playing as a group, listening to a leader and following the RATs.

Whatever you think, in a raid, your free to bring ideas, but at the end, I seriously hope you follow the leader's decision and that if he asks to follow the RAT, you don't look for stared creeps anymore!

True that but Areruthalion's idea was good anyway and there is a possible middleground to it : the leader assigning "scare" utility to a couple hunters while everyone else is and stays on the RAT at all times. If a couple hunters can "disable" like 3 or 4 starred enemies at each charge then we're onto something nice I guess ?

**Calwen** · Number of posts: 138 Registration date: 2008-08-27

Arctaos wrote:

Ooooo... look at what i found on raiding

How to Unoobify yourraid!
ROFL!!
It's a great one! A lot of very good advices alors.
Thanks for the link! ^_^

Guest

Calwen wrote:

I read some things that scares me here...
Person n°1 think like that.
Person n°2 think like this.
Person n°3 think another way.

For example, I see people saying they look for stared creeps when they fight.
That may make them run away, true.
But still you should be on the RAT. è_é

If person n°1 & 2 also do what they think is best... Well, no wonder the freeps are so bad at playing as a group, listening to a leader and following the RATs.

Whatever you think, in a raid, your free to bring ideas, but at the end, I seriously hope you follow the leader's decision and that if he asks to follow the RAT, you don't look for stared creeps anymore!

As someone else said, here we discuss, disagree and try to find a working strategy that a leader can use. In combat, the leader leads. The rest follows BUT as always as best as possible. A good leader hopefully will read here and realize how other classes fight and not be suprised that if he charges 100 meters away from the minstrels that heals during that charge are very bad and all of a sudden all the support classes are dead and the charge is a wipe.

The hunter who spoke about the scaring freeps is right. This is often a very viable strategy for those who are in the rear. Although personally I favor AoE for it. Stay on the most dangerous target, but throw in some AoE to scare the cowards away. As a LM, cracked earth works wonders especially on wargs as they know they are soon going to be root, and no star junkie wants to be the one the raid is going to pounce on next.

A good raid leader I feel should be aware that following RAT is an essential PART of a succesful strategy but it must be complemented by other tactics to keep the rear safe, to deal with people who have been RATted by creeps, etc etc.

In an equal number fight, perhaps the majority is on RAT (not counting minstrels of course) while the rest concentrates on keeping the raid alive by harrasing and breaking up the creeps. As LM, stun the defilers and WL you see doing their art even if they are NOT the RAT. Hunters, shoot the occasional warg you see sneaking around trying to flank with a hail of arrows. Champs, if for some reason you are not with the RAT, there is no harm going AoE around the squishies just to clear the air.

Guardians could attempt to pick up some of the NPC's so they don't become a nuisance in the rear.

Just staying on RAT is to simple, Ettens is more fluid than that, the leader should be followed, but the leader should also trust his followers to know their own class and their duty. That is why I think the leader should be someone else then the rat and preferably someone who can stay in the rear but who is not to busy fighting. A hunter or captain seems most logical, or perhaps a burglar who stays stealthed. Anyone who can see the WHOLE battle and not just the current target.

Not sure it is going to work, you get the armies problem, before you can send your special forces to fight using their own initiative they must first be thoroughly drilled to follow orders without thinking. Wether the same can be done in a game is questionable. Before you can decide NOT to follow RAT, you must first learn to follow it without question, then learn WHY it is important to follow it, why it is bad if people decide NOT to follow it and only THEN can you slowly beging to learn when you can use your own initiative NOT to follow it.

Good raids, in PvE or PvP, allow people to think for themselves and then hopefully you got people who can do this.

**Erlo** · Number of posts: 119 Registration date: 2008-08-27

To be honest Enat. This is the point i have to come to. WHERE people KNOW what to do, so that i dont have to think of the small details about what u or someone else have to do. How are we to move forward if we cant even get the most BASIC point of following RAT to work. I like the idea of 2 RATs i really do. But in that case we need 2 GOOD rats. Ok i dont have to Be RAT all the time, for sure. But what i have seen the times we have tried 2 RATs, one Offensive and one defensive, is that the defensive stays to long on the same targets. To few changes are made, I have seen Creeps go down 2K then get fully healed and rat is on the same creep for 2 minutes without the creep dropping even 500 moral.

And dont forget that we since i have seen you on freep side almost never had more then 1 raid up and running. Red map and a full creep raid + more. Helf the people int the raids i have never seen before. There are rank 7-8 that i have not seen and that has no idea at all of how to play their class, how to behave in the raid nor not to df as soon as u get hit. U got people claiming the highest rank should lead etc.

Enat please, once we got the Basic points going we can start talking tactics. Until that point this wil be simply to much bla bla. Some of us reads it and makes notes. But in the big picture people will only see it as complains. Someone telling someone else that they are noobish because no advanced tactics are used.

Either we make Roles in the alliance. We make Sergants, Liuetenants, Marshals etc. We give people certian roles.

We should start with having a leader, Someone responsable for invites, readinge and informing about OOC, Sending tells etc. People should learn NOT to ask, Oh can you invite this and that Leader, In the middle of a keep take, full of npcs and a full creep raid defending. People Asking to me raid assist in the same situations. This just shows me how less people care and how focused they are on the job. Ok its a game and you are here to have fun. But if u join a raid in a PvP zone you cant rant around. Do that solo or in a small group.

Guest

One thing we got to accept as freeps, we are out numbered, out classed and frankly, often out played.

Creeps are purely PvP designed and it shows. WL'ers are the most obvious example, sure they don't do much damage, and their healing is nowwhere near that of a minstrel BUT they are healing/rezzing tanks. Perfect for PvP, they can heal at the front, rez at the front and keep on their feet for a long time if they get to be the target.

What have we got? Minstrels who die if you sneeze at them and captains who got a measly HoT that hurts them badly. Captains can run in and rez and it has an induction that takes ages and has a 30 minute CD.

The creeps ain't green anymore, we can't just keep using the same tactics. Remember that everytime we loose a fight, freeps leave. I seen minstrels come and go, only a handful remain right now who are hardcore enough to stick it out when they die over and over again.

So by all means, go simple, but freeps are burning out on the constant wipes.

Reavers at the moment are insane and champions are no match for them. LM'ers can do anything against their charges which they use constantly to probe our flanks and rear to see what minstrel they can pick off.

The moment the charge goes to far, they reavers are on the rear, with the wargs and BAM, there goes the raid.

One very simple difference between creeps and freeps. If a reaver dies, he has half a dozen WL'er tank who can rez him every 5 minutes and up to 4 of his friends. Minstrels got a rez every 15 minutes, just one target and they are very vulnerable while doing it.

We cannot fight the same fight as creeps. Unless you as a champ learn to fight without heals, you got to accept that you need to allow the healers to do their job.

When we encounter a 1 raid vs 1 raid fight, we can keep it simple because then we stand a change with just main RAT to burn down their rezzes, but as soon as they fights start to become bigger the creeps just gain the advantage even with equal numbers simply because they can afford to swarm all over the place with the healers right with them. We can't.

Yes, we need more RAT's, that is often the hardest to find as well as leaders.

The problem at the moment is that to few people actually use the RAT, look at where the arrows are flying, it don't matter if we use 1 rat or a dozen, if everybody ignores it, there is no point.

One problem with a single rat is also that creeps ain't stupid, they then have a single person to heal and they can always put a bubble on him. Two rats splits their healing, makes them work harder, splits them up for a change.

But basically, the first thing we need to do is to get more healers, and Erlo, to be honest, your tactics have them die to often for them to return to the Etttens. We need numbers and if our tactics no matter how succesfull they are on the short-term cause us to bleed players we need to change them to keep the minstrels coming back.

Cause right now, if I ask a friendly minstrel to go PvE it is 'yes sure' but for PvP it is 'no, thanks, I just end up being ganked and dying constantly'. Mincers don't like dying constantly, eithe protect them or do without them and frankly I don't think we can do that.

Guest

sorry enat but i dissagree, maybe noob minstrels who dont know there job and dont know ettens very well will get narked at dying, but lately since this alliance has been up and running i have loved ettens more. i will only leave when either a) its too late for me to continue or b) kin needs me. I would say there is a hard core number of minstrels who are the same, they know the game know the risks and lets face it if you cant accept dying you shouldnt be in moors anyway. its not the minstrels i see leaving after wipes its the hunters and champs that i see leaving. Also since we have started this i find that the minstrels are being protected a lot more.

I have read a lot of your posts enat and i dont know if its just me but everything we do seems wrong to you. I have not seen you freep side maybe i missed you i dont know but please if you think you can do it better come and try.