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Erlo

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Number of posts : 119
Registration date : 2008-08-27

PostSubject: Characters   Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:04 pm

A small note that should be essential for everyone that takes part of the alliance.

Start with to know how to play your class. You should know your part in the raid. What is your job and your objectives.

Edit : As a small personal note, Try to work on your character so that it has over 3000 hitpoints. Below that you are a to easy target. You go down to fast to manage to do something.

Movement. Pve is not the same as PvP. You cant stand still all the time as you can in PvE, as the target you are hitting is moving. And there are other targets moving around hitting you or someone else.

A good way to practise is for everyone, every class to spar each other. That way you will find out what to use on different characters. Slows, stunns etc.

Basic points as stay with the group. Follow Raid assist target., listen to leader.

Sounds like basic stuff for many of us but it still needs to be repeated.

/Erlo


Last edited by Erlo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:18 am

I have only one thing to say to this you just said to keep all minstrels out of moors.

We have to stand still to heal no getting round that and no i dont have over 3k morale yet but i have been in moors a long time now and i have been working on it its not fair to say its not a good idea for me to come because of that.

Its all good for you to say about other classes to keep moving and hit rat but that advice is completely useless for a minnie. we dont fight! its that simple and yes we are easy targets, im used to that and i dont care but to say im not usefull hurts.
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Erlo

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Number of posts : 119
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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:54 am

That sounded harder then i ment it. I know that you are doing a good job and my tips were def not to hurt anyone or tell anyone to stay away. I edited my post to express myself in a better way.
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Connall

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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:40 am

I think Lanthriel that Erlo's advice here was pretty general and not even intended for you or minstrels.

No one expects Minstrels to be on RAT, and generally in Raid v Raid battles Minstrels only job is to heal - aside from the odd Song of Distraction!

Even in skirmishing a minstrel is generally going to be healing more than attacking although of course it must be nice for mincers to get stuck in and kill creeps sometimes!

I think the point about having to be still to heal is one id like to explore further - having never played a mince id like to know more about induction times range and cooldowns etc for heals to understand how better to use and protect minstrels in raids.

Playing a Hunter I understand the mentality of needing to take a stand somewhere, although I often find the best place to be in a fight is slap bang in the middle of the melee...

The important thing about this is that all classes are different and have many subtleties which other players probably wont be aware of - with that in mind im going to start a class specific thread for the Hunter
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Calwen



Number of posts : 138
Registration date : 2008-08-27

PostSubject: Re: Characters   Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:37 am

Great minds think a like
A tip for every class is planned. Please just give us some time before writing yours. I'd like all the tips to follow the same pattern.
Your participation is very appriciated!
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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:15 am

i know you didnt say anything intentionally to hurt erlo and i guess i over reacted a bit im just fed up of everyone telling me to move around so im not a target but i cant heal then. i will try to check induction times and such and let you guys know.
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Calwen



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Registration date : 2008-08-27

PostSubject: Re: Characters   Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:51 am

I know I am one of those leaders who always ask the minstrels to move with the group and come inside the melees.

But don't worry, I have a minstrel alt, and I know what I ask is not easy and not always doable.

So what I really mean when I ask for such things is : try your best to come inside the group.
I would never shout at a minstrel because he doesn't succeed at doing so. I know about the induction, I know you need to stand still to heal.
But I don't have the time to say all that when I'm leading, I just have the time to shout : All inside the group! Very Happy

So I hope you don't feel hurt when I do such things. I've noticed you didn't stay long in the raid today, I hope it's not because of that.
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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:58 am

no calwen i had to leave to pick my kids up from school. was nothing else and i enjoyed today it gave me a chance to try some of my offensive skills i dont normally use them in moors. And i got to check induction times and such. lol you know when i get upset and people screaming at minstrels cuz i tend to scream back lol.
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Calwen



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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:44 pm

lanthiriel wrote:
you know when i get upset and people screaming at minstrels cuz i tend to scream back lol.

Good that's the attitude! Very Happy
*thumbs up*
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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:11 am

The problem is that both hunters and champs tend to be played by people with limited tactical awareness.

How often do you see a champ or hunter get ganked on his own because he did not move with the group? They advanced just a bit to far, chased to long and then the creeps turned and had an easy bit of infamy.

Simply put, NEITHER lore-master, minstrel or hunter are at their best if you wish them to move. These three classes stand STILL.

Charging is the wrong tactic anyway.

WOLF-PACK.

LM/Burglar singles out a target, disables it, rest pounce on it. Regroup to safety.

Charges do NOT work. The game just isn't build for it, go play WARhammer instead.

Why doesn't charging work? Because when you do charge as a group all you have done is surrounded yourself with enemies and which ever way you turn you are in range of 3/4 of their black arrows and reavers all around killing the light armour-classes and wrecking your rear.

DO NOT CHARGE INTO A RAID OF CREEPS.

Creeps don't do this either unless their got fastly superior numbers BUT they got a combat rez that rezzes 5 targets EVERY 5 minutes. They can afford to hurl themselves on a freep raid. Creeps don't have the skills for it and anyway, the tactic is wrong from a game that doesn't have collision detection on players.

The charge in this game is like airborne troops dropping in the middle of an enemy army. Suicide.

If you wish to conduct a charge it must be done like this.

Enemy is disabled with range of healing. Melee rushes in, when melee is on the target all let loose, CC controls who ever comes to the targets aid, switch to next closest BUT stay within range of support who IS NOT MOVING. If there are no more enemie within healing range, retreat back, do NOT chase into a full freep rade.

Extended charges can only happen if you do NOT need support so the support can follow you. But remember they need to be protected, hunters would be nice for this, but who wants to rely for hunters on anything more then to break CC. Assign some champs to beat the shit of any creep who dares to attack the support troops.

Remember that minstrels and lore-masters will be a lot more willing to follow you if they see a champ killing off the warg that killed them.
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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:08 am

Enat wrote:


DO NOT CHARGE INTO A RAID OF CREEPS.

Creeps don't do this either unless their got fastly superior numbers BUT they got a combat rez that rezzes 5 targets EVERY 5 minutes. They can afford to hurl themselves on a freep raid. Creeps don't have the skills for it and anyway, the tactic is wrong from a game that doesn't have collision detection on players.

The charge in this game is like airborne troops dropping in the middle of an enemy army. Suicide.


Not trying to question your advice or tactics here but are you serious. You honestly think that creeps only ever charge when they have vast numbers??
I'll give you a small bit of advice. If a raid of 24 freeps with one or two mincers is up against a raid of 18 Creeps and they have a one or two warleaders and have a good about of reavers (8+) they are guarenteed to charge and take down both mincers as when both mincers drop (and they will) the freeps will wipe sooooooo quickly that it'll scare you. If the freeps don't drop .. they'll run.
I don't know who instructed you on creep tactics but they're wrong. Trust me... I know.
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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:05 am

Indeed like Gwelendrial said, creeps will charge without depending on their numbers unless they are vastly outnumbered they wont. They'll charge, take out minstrells for then they can kill freely (since mostly freeps are running around like headless chickens).

If you're having a charge, the ENTIRE RAID must charge, not only the melee types. But everyone, Hunters, Lore-masters, Minstrells, Champions, Guardians, Burglars and Captains, Everyone needs to charge or it IS NOT A CHARGE. Just pay attention on the creep charges, It aren't only the reavers that charge, but warleaders charge aswell same as the blackarrows and defilers. WY!?!?! 24 creeps charging 24 freeps will cause the 24 freeps to make a withdrawal for they are being overrun. 8 creeps charging 24 freeps = suicide. 24 freeps charging 24 creeps will mostlikely mean that you can charge into their raid and kill the warleaders as if only the 5-6 champs would charge you don't have a grip on the warleaders, they simply back off and let the reavers do the work. If all charges the warleaders can be snared by multiple hunters, rooted, stunned by lore-masters everything. It will be chaos for the creeps and they are forced to either make a stand or withdrawal.
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Calwen



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Registration date : 2008-08-27

PostSubject: Re: Characters   Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:15 am

Turulnya wrote:
Indeed like Gwelendrial said, creeps will charge without depending on their numbers unless they are vastly outnumbered they wont. They'll charge, take out minstrells for then they can kill freely (since mostly freeps are running around like headless chickens).

If you're having a charge, the ENTIRE RAID must charge, not only the melee types. But everyone, Hunters, Lore-masters, Minstrells, Champions, Guardians, Burglars and Captains, Everyone needs to charge or it IS NOT A CHARGE. Just pay attention on the creep charges, It aren't only the reavers that charge, but warleaders charge aswell same as the blackarrows and defilers. WY!?!?! 24 creeps charging 24 freeps will cause the 24 freeps to make a withdrawal for they are being overrun. 8 creeps charging 24 freeps = suicide. 24 freeps charging 24 creeps will mostlikely mean that you can charge into their raid and kill the warleaders as if only the 5-6 champs would charge you don't have a grip on the warleaders, they simply back off and let the reavers do the work. If all charges the warleaders can be snared by multiple hunters, rooted, stunned by lore-masters everything. It will be chaos for the creeps and they are forced to either make a stand or withdrawal.

Totally agreed.
The problem on freep side, is actually that most of the time not the raid charges (despite the desperate call from the leader to do it)... when it's not the porr RAT charging alone... (yeah! Thanks peeps!... <== this was ironic)

I seriously don't understand your point of view about the charge here, especially knowing your playstyle as a creep and knowing what creeps class you play.
O_o *dazeled*
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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:35 am

Not alone Cal *shows a big scar up his shoulders due to a Durum fang cat while he was charging*
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Connall

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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:31 pm

Regardless of the game mechanics Charging works because of Human factors. If you charge a group of creeps who are not expecting it you will wipe them - even a so called perfect raid - you will kill at least one Warleader immediately and a second and maybe a third before they start to react properly.

Charging against an alert raid is more difficult - you need to time it right for when they are scattered or feeling vulnerable and exposed like when you flank round some terrain and catch them from an unexpected direction but then its even more important for ALL the raid to charge and hit hard with maximum DPS to scatter them and start them running.

There is nothing worse than shouting CHARGE and hurling yourself into battle while half the raid dawdles or hesitates to see if the charge will work - hesitation leads to defeat and also means more people are likely to think twice when you want to charge again.

_________________
"Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory."

The Art of War by Sun Tzu
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PostSubject: Re: Characters   Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:38 am

Calwen wrote:

I seriously don't understand your point of view about the charge here, especially knowing your playstyle as a creep and knowing what creeps class you play.
O_o *dazeled*

My vieuw of charge, that is to gain an advantage against your enemy. The creep classes I play aren't of any importance. If I'm leading a raid of creeps and lead it with my warleader I'll be the first one to charge (atleast first in the way of running towards the freep raid as I get catched up by charging reavers). If i'm leading with my reaver its the same. Never lead with my warg so pointless to start with him. In the times I lead with my hunter and I said charge I whas the one charging ahead. Not *insert name here*.

There is also no reason to put my playstyle as a creep in here, for this is not about my playstyle as creep but about charging with an entire raid instead of melee types only.
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